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Don't throw away all votes when a user is deleted

Currently, when a moderator deletes a user all of the user's votes are removed along with the user themselves. I was pretty surprised at this behaviour when I first heard about it, and I don't think it is a good idea to throw away all of the votes just because the user is deleted.

Votes are locked after a short while and you can't change your vote unless the post is edited. This is a precedent that shows that users don't have complete control over their old votes, their ability to change or remove their votes is restricted for the benefit of the whole site. I don't understand why users that get deleted are suddenly exempt from this restriction.

The drawback of removing the votes is that we throw away valuable information. Voting plays an important role on SE sites, and every time an active user is deleted we throw away some of that information.

I also don't see why rage-quitting users get to remove one kind of contribution (votes) while we stop them if they try to remove their other contributions to the site (posts). We stop users from deleting all their posts because they still provide value to the site, I don't see why we shoud treat votes any different. They might have less value than posts, but they are useful to the site as a whole.

I'm ignoring any vote invalidation in connection with vote fraud or sock puppeting for the purposes of this post. Those votes should certainly be invalidated, but that doesn't usually happen by deleting users.

To prevent abuse of user deletion for vote fraud, there could be some minimum requirements on account age and reputation, below those requirements any votes would be discarded on deletion. Any suspicious voting patterns of the user should automatically block the deletion until they have been checked manually. This is of course more effort for the moderators, but account self-deletion doesn't happen so often that this would be a problem in my opinion.

The recent change to counting reputation from deleted questions if they are old enough and have at least three upvotes moves the whole reputation system further into a direction where reputation can't be taken away after some time. The reasoning for this change was that even though certain questions are off-topic now, they used to be on-topic and therefore the reputation earned had some meaning then. This provides further precedent that reputation shouldn't be removed retroactively on a large scale.

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  • 16
    I'd consider it completed now. I've changed my mind a bit on the details since I posted this years ago, a completely automatic process would be a bit too easy to misuse. The current compromise solves the main issue. Commented Oct 29, 2015 at 8:05
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    Are those thresholds constant across the network or do they depend on the size/activity of the site? -500 (just to pick a number) might be trivial on the trilogy and a major problem on a small beta. Even if we throw out the trilogy at one end and Beer at the other, there's still a pretty wide range in between. Commented Oct 29, 2015 at 13:10
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    The thresholds could be adjusted per-site, but this is mostly to allow them to be increased on Stack Overflow if need-be; thus far, having two thresholds has proven to be sufficient, @Monica: the idea being, it makes more sense to gauge the effect on specific users for smaller sites than it does to aim for a universal number of votes. Commented Oct 29, 2015 at 14:30
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    Thanks @Shog9. I asked because if the threshold is too high it wouldn't trigger to cause a human to look at it on a smaller site, so you'd never have the opportunity to evaluate that effect. A lower threshold calibrated for most of the network and a higher one for SO is a good approach. Commented Oct 29, 2015 at 14:45
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    Nearly a full year afterwards, is there still any reason to leave this as deferred, or tag as completed? (or declined) Commented Sep 25, 2016 at 13:56
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    checks to see if this is the very next thing on his list - no, looks like "deferred" is still accurate, @Shadow. Commented Sep 26, 2016 at 23:09
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    closely related: erm… I lost 2,134 in reputation I think it safe to say that several users on EL&U have been significantly affected by the upvotes deleted. Commented Oct 29, 2017 at 12:56
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    I covered this scenario in the answer above, @Mari-LouA; moderators reached out numerous times in this particular instance, and were rebuffed. It's unfortunate, but some folks just don't care to play by the rules. Commented Oct 29, 2017 at 14:16
  • @Shog9 fair enough. That's all I needed to hear. Thank you, sincerely, for responding. EDIT But if there were repeated voting irregularities why wasn't the user suspended more than once? Never mind... I think I get it. Commented Oct 29, 2017 at 14:22
  • I consider this a reasonable solution. I'm willing to forfeit a little reputation to ensure that vote fraud and other forms of abuse are caught and removed from the system. I certainly wouldn't request an automated process, and I would complain if there were one. Commented Jul 26, 2018 at 3:14
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    There's a much better system. You split user removal into two processes: * Removed for vote fraud: Delete their votes. *Removed for other reasons: Delete only their unlocked votes. Votes that can no longer be changed by them manually won't be changed by the system when they're deleted. Commented Oct 26, 2018 at 20:54
  • What if the deleted user was involved in voting freud on the harmed side (for example, someone chain downed him, which was automatically reversed)? What if the deleted user was involved in voting freud, but it happened many years before the deletion, and on another site? Commented Apr 28, 2019 at 19:13
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    voting freud? Was that a Freudian slip? :) Commented Nov 24, 2019 at 3:07
  • Does this mean that the community user can vote multiple times on the same item if two users are deleted that voted on the same one? Or are all but one removed in that case? Commented Aug 20, 2023 at 21:19
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    Under normal circumstances, user #-1 can have multiple votes counting toward the score of a single post, @M.Justin Commented Aug 21, 2023 at 3:03